October 17, 2017, 07:06:20 PM

Author Topic: Cats in the Dark Forest  (Read 1688 times)

Offline Darkforestwarrior

Cats in the Dark Forest
« on: September 19, 2016, 10:49:36 PM »
Gather round Warrior's Wish, it's time to hear the latest controversy within the warriors fandom!

Recently on Vicky's facebook page, a fan asked where some of the characters from the super editions ended up after they died. The question was answered by Su (Where did Su even come from? Can someone more informed than me fill me in? She's definitely relaying info from Vicky it seems but also has some power to make her own canon and I'm confused)

The question confirmed quite a few cats went to the Dark Forest, two of them having reasoning attached:

Quote
Brightflower [Yellowfang's mother], (Was filled with hate because she thought Yellowfang killed Mintkit and Marigoldkit. When Brokenstar revealed it was him she was not sane enought anymore to understand that her daughter was innocent. Also she was shocked again because her leader which she trusted so much was the murderer)
So she went to Dark Forest literally for not being mentally well? Not only does that send a terrible message regarding mental illness, but it doesn't make sense seeing as cats like Bluestar and Ashfur ended up in Starclan and both of them did arguably worse things.

Quote
Lilywhisker, (She got injured shortly after she became a warrior. Her hindleg was smashed and she had to go straight to the elders. She was furious of her fate to sit around for years unable to help. She is a bit like Briarlight with her broken back, but she wasn't able to settle her mind with her fate.)
A cat literally goes to the Dark Forest for being...mad that she was injured? Again, terrible terrible message that this sends in my opinion.


Anyhow, I think that sums it up, what are your opinions on this? Some people in the fandom are rejecting it as canon entirely (I don't blame them), some are only really irritated that there was no foreshadowing to any of this, some think we should wait and see if anything comes of all of it. Also, what are some of the other controversial things within canon, and what do you think of those?

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Offline Neon Skylite

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 12:32:11 AM »
Su is apparently a really big fan of Warriors and knows almost everything, so Vicky let Su answer the questions she's usually bombarded with. Sadly that's all I know, sorry.
I don't consider Brightflower to be in the Dark Forest. Apparently cats that knew "I'm a murderer and I'm evil mwahahaha" went to the Dark Forest, but cats that thought "I'm being bad but it's for the good for catity" catmanity? Cathumanity? I dunno. went to StarClan like Mudclaw or Ashfur.
Haven't read Tallstar's Revenge though, so no comment.
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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 12:49:07 AM »
I never really thought Ashfur was doing what was good for catkind (lol catmanity) it always felt to me like his intentions were selfish.

BUT if he was in a bad mental state it could be argued that he did think he was doing what was best for the clans by sharing the secret about the three. I can't argue anything positive for trying to murder three kits and his leader though.

Also yeah I don't consider either of those two cats to actually be in the DF. I reject this canon lol

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Offline Squirrelypaws

Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 11:08:21 AM »
I haven't read the SE's these two are in, so I don't know much about them specifically... But didn't Vicky say, back when Long Shadows was released and we were all debating where Ashfur would go, that each cat had a sort of "trial" after they died and that a big factor was whether or not the cat was willing to let go of the hatred and/or see the error of their evil ways? I might be confusing a fan theory for something confirmed, though. XD

Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 11:51:56 AM »
This is totally the first time I've ever heard that theory actually! Who would be in charge of these trials I wonder, I feel they could be biased if random StarClanners were in charge  :tongue:

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Offline Starlingspots

Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 04:13:02 PM »
Lilywhisker never seemed to be bitter and never showed signs of anger in the book, so it seems out of character for her to be in the Dark Forest.

As for Brightflower, she does remind me a bit of Mapleshade, as they were both mad over the loss of their kits. Considering the fact that we've never seen anything from her point of view, she probably did wicked things like Mapleshade did with Appledusk, Frecklewish, and Ravenwing.

Offline Neon Skylite

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 04:19:56 PM »
I never really thought Ashfur was doing what was good for catkind (lol catmanity) it always felt to me like his intentions were selfish.

BUT if he was in a bad mental state it could be argued that he did think he was doing what was best for the clans by sharing the secret about the three. I can't argue anything positive for trying to murder three kits and his leader though.

Also yeah I don't consider either of those two cats to actually be in the DF. I reject this canon lol
To be more specific, cats who thought they were following the code by being bad.
And yeah, catmanity is dumb.
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Offline Lightning

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 04:29:15 PM »
Su is apparently a really big fan of Warriors and knows almost everything, so Vicky let Su answer the questions she's usually bombarded with. Sadly that's all I know, sorry.
I don't consider Brightflower to be in the Dark Forest. Apparently cats that knew "I'm a murderer and I'm evil mwahahaha" went to the Dark Forest, but cats that thought "I'm being bad but it's for the good for catity" catmanity? Cathumanity? I dunno. went to StarClan like Mudclaw or Ashfur.
Haven't read Tallstar's Revenge though, so no comment.
I wouldn't say she's just a big fan. She's really informed and her and Vicky are working together to try and nail down the series and get rid of so many inconsistent parts, and try and help fans get the answers they ask for. She also helps out with the editing for the novellas, and things like that. I'd say she's actually Vicky's assistant, not just a fan that gets to answer questions. She's a valid source of information and her and Vicky talk about pretty much everything before posting it.

Imo with Lilywhisker, I don't think we saw anywhere near enough of her to judge, but perhaps we will in another story?

EDIT: I also think Su was corrected on Brightflower, as it was pointed out she did know that Brokenstar killed her kits, as the event in question happened in Into the Wild.

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Offline hyperadam

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 06:46:47 PM »
This seems kind of dumb... Like I understand that thinking your daughter is a murderer even after she's been proven innocent and staying bitter about something you can't control for your whole life aren't exactly healthy mindsets, but what exactly did they do?

Besides, if that's enough to send someone to the Dark Forest, why is Ashfur in StarClan? Yes, I'm going to keep harping on about this, it still bugs me He also stayed bitter all the way to his death, only it was over something a million times more petty, plus he had attempted murder on top of that.

Although I guess with Brightflower you could maybe argue that it wasn't just her blaming Yellowfang, but her being complicit in Brokenstar's actions? That would make sense.

Offline Ivypool

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 07:14:06 PM »
allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 12:17:17 AM »
Besides, if that's enough to send someone to the Dark Forest, why is Ashfur in StarClan? Yes, I'm going to keep harping on about this, it still bugs me He also stayed bitter all the way to his death, only it was over something a million times more petty, plus he had attempted murder on top of that.
Let's face it we're all going to harp about Ashfur going to StarClan for the rest of fandom time haha


Although I guess with Brightflower you could maybe argue that it wasn't just her blaming Yellowfang, but her being complicit in Brokenstar's actions? That would make sense.
I dunno, I mean she was obviously distraught over her kits dying,and even though she was complicit in sending Yellowfang away, Brokenstar didn't reveal what he had done until after Yellowfang was banished I believe.

allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Oh yeah, I remember reading the post about Dawncloud, that seemed pretty strange I think. In a way I can almost get that because stress can be detrimental to your health but dang...poor Dawncloud

I admit, I don't actually remember who Marshcloud or Fallowtail are though D:

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Offline Neon Skylite

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2016, 12:49:06 AM »
Besides, if that's enough to send someone to the Dark Forest, why is Ashfur in StarClan? Yes, I'm going to keep harping on about this, it still bugs me He also stayed bitter all the way to his death, only it was over something a million times more petty, plus he had attempted murder on top of that.
Let's face it we're all going to harp about Ashfur going to StarClan for the rest of fandom time haha


Although I guess with Brightflower you could maybe argue that it wasn't just her blaming Yellowfang, but her being complicit in Brokenstar's actions? That would make sense.
I dunno, I mean she was obviously distraught over her kits dying,and even though she was complicit in sending Yellowfang away, Brokenstar didn't reveal what he had done until after Yellowfang was banished I believe.

allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Oh yeah, I remember reading the post about Dawncloud, that seemed pretty strange I think. In a way I can almost get that because stress can be detrimental to your health but dang...poor Dawncloud

I admit, I don't actually remember who Marshcloud or Fallowtail are though D:
Marshcloud was in the alleigiances for Tallstar's Revenge. In the Crookedstar's Promise preview, he was seen carrying reeds with Timberfur. But in CP, Timberfur carries it with Cedarpelt.
Fallowtail was a warrior in CP and met with Reedfeather, WindClan deputy, often. Two moons later she has Reedfeather's kits; Willowkit and Graykit (Willowbreeze and Graypool) she also denies Reedfeather Willowkit and Graykit, Reedfeather says he will fight for them, Fallowtail gives it over. RiverClan attacks WindClan, they get the kits back, and Fallowtail becomes unimportant, only showing up at Willowpaw's warrior ceremony and worries about Willowbreeze's kitting as an elder.
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Offline hyperadam

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2016, 09:25:18 AM »
I dunno, I mean she was obviously distraught over her kits dying,and even though she was complicit in sending Yellowfang away, Brokenstar didn't reveal what he had done until after Yellowfang was banished I believe.
Right, but it says that even after the truth had come out she still blamed Yellowfang, and trusted Brokenstar. That's kind of what I was getting at, that she refused to let that go and was still willing to defend the real murderer.

Offline Lightning

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Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2016, 09:39:36 AM »
allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Kate confirmed that Marshcloud and Cedarpelt were brothers, not Su.

I get that people aren't happy with this, but wow. Being rude to the authors and Su is actually kind of a watermelon move.

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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2016, 09:54:47 AM »
I'm not trying to be mean, and I can definitely appreciate their efforts to fill in the gaps, I think that's a good thing.

I merely disagree with these decisions and think they not only don't make sense but potentially are sending a bad message. (well, the Dark Forest cats that I mentioned at least, I don't have much opinion on the other stuff tbh!)

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