December 14, 2017, 12:49:46 PM

Author Topic: Favourite Villain  (Read 1279 times)

Offline Dustfeather

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Favourite Villain
« on: June 29, 2015, 11:31:06 AM »
The Warrior Cats series is generally pretty clear-cut as to its characters' morality, which is good news for those who like villainous characters. Who are your favourites in the series? :)


I really enjoyed Brokenstar as a villain; I find him to be very understated in the fandom, probably because he only showed up in a few books, but compared with a lot of the more ineffectual villains (e.g. Hawkfrost, Ashfur) I found him to be a much more interesting character because he actually achieved things -- such as driving an entire Clan out of the forest. I feel like a lot of the later antagonists were too quickly dismissed from the stories, which detracted from their villainy. I also remember getting very emotional during the scene where Yellowfang killed him with deathberries, as it showed that despite his presentation as this oppressive dictator, he was still someone's family, which I feel made him more realistic as a character.

I enjoyed the plot with Mudclaw's rebellion as well; I found him to be one of the more justified villains, as he genuinely felt he could do what was best for his Clan, despite his rather harsher nature than Onewhisker. I feel like I should read the book with him in it again at some point (Dawn or Starlight, I think?) to see whether my perspective is still the same, as it's been a long time since I read any of the New Prophecy books.

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Offline Arcade Heat

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 12:18:06 PM »
I don't really like Ashfur as a villain, just because of how it happened. such a fedora wearing cat.
To be honest, I don't really like a lot of villains, just because of how clear cut they are. I'd rather have a more morally ambiguous villain, one that doesn't just do bad things for the sake of doing bad things.

If I had to go for a favourite, I would probably have to say either scourge or mudclaw. Despite scourge being a deus ex machina in terms of killing tigerstar, I still really like how he evolved into who he was. Like Dust said, I also really like how mudclaw was one of the more justified villains. I could really understand his actions and why he acted the way he did, and that made him so much more real.
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Offline fireheart

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 01:01:21 PM »
I adored Mudclaw as well, I was secretly rooting for him the whole time haha. I was kinda bummed that he went to the Place of No Stars, because like Dustfeather said, I think he really felt that what he was doing was for the best of his clan, which most of the other villains in Warriors can't really say. Very few of the other villains were as multifaceted as he was, which is interesting, considering how he wasn't really one of the 'huge' villains in that arc. Either way, he was really interesting and I still like him a lot.

(Also Scourge is cool and I love drawing fanart of him bc I love his design)

Offline sageheart

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Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 02:47:02 PM »
happy to see all this Mudclaw appreciation, because he was pretty justified. I also really felt Hawkheart was interesting. I wanted to know more about him and his choices. I mean, an ex-Warrior med cat that could tear out straight-up THROW a young, powerful Warrior in her prime by the throat and kill her? He's just always been fascinating to me, and I'd love to know more about him. imo he's much more interesting than characters like Ashfur and Tigerstar.

Offline Jilda

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 04:06:22 PM »
Scourge is probably my favorite largely due to his backstory. It's honestly so relatable - bullying being what pushes you into these darker places but then managing to rise above the rest and prove everyone wrong. Scourge's story sends out such a positive message, which is ironic when you realize that he's a villian and what he does do is pretty bad but hey. xD

Brokenstar was quite interesting as well. As mentioned I loved how they showed his humanity through Yellowfang's stuggle and pain of having to kill him at the very end.

I wonder if another really fleshed out villian will ever come about honestly, it seems in the more recent books villians are pretty poorly developed and come out of no where, or it's a cat reacting to their emotions in an extreme bad way yet they get labelled off as a villian due to that, idk. Sort of like with the whole Mudclaw thing even though that occurred way earlier on, he truly thought what he was doing was right and I don't think he really deserved the dark forest after reading everything said here about him actually.

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Offline Ariel

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 06:32:28 AM »
Wait, I thought Mudclaw went to StarClan... I could have sworn I remember reading him being in there.
I was rooting for him, too (though he should have gone a different route than what he did). I mean, come on, wouldn't you find it suspicious if the only ones that supposedly heard your former leader say who the new leader should be were your enemy and the supposed new leader?

I don't really have a favorite villain in the series. They all seemed to want the exact same thing: power. It gets kind of old and repetitive. I would have liked Hawkfrost if he was just the jerk everyone thought he was and was just trying to get Mistystar's positon as deputy, but then he followed Tigerstar's footsteps (pawsteps?). Mapleshade might be interesting, but I guess I need to read her short story to find more about her history first. Thistleclaw is one of my favorite characters, but I don't really classify him as a villain since he never really did anything. Sol could have been interesting, but I think kind of fell through. I like manipulative villains that make you question everything. As for Clear Sky... ugh. I don't care for him, but I dislike those that keep making excuses for him even more.

Offline fireheart

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 01:12:47 PM »
Mudclaw might have gone to Starclan- I feel like I remember him being in the PoNS, but I could be wrong.

I haven't read Mapleshade's story yet either, but a lot of people seem to love her so I'm looking forward to reading it at some point. I absolutely adored Sol when he first showed up, but like you said @Ariel , he just sorta... fell flat. The Erins really seem to have trouble with making good villains as of late, at least imo.

Also I absolutely cannot stand Clear Sky - I'm only partway through book two of DotC but ughhhhh I just hate him so far

Offline sageheart

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Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 02:04:23 PM »
I went and verified - according to the 5th Erin Hunter chat, Mudclaw is in StarClan, because he believed he was being robbed of his code-given leadership. While I have nothing against Tallstar for acting on his vision, Mudclaw would probably have been an okay leader. If he was worried about violence, Onestar launched an unprovoked attack on ThunderClan at least once, so.

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Offline fireheart

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 08:00:19 PM »
Yaaaay i'm glad to hear I was wrong! Mudclaw definitely should be in Starclan. Not sure where I had the idea he wasn't... huh.

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Offline Ariel

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 09:15:50 PM »
Yeah, I've caught up with DotC and I still don't really get Clear Sky. And I'm not sure the Erins do either.
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Offline Jilda

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 09:28:47 PM »
The erins try to hard to force us into liking certain cats (like Crowfeather by still displaying him as "decent" when he's pretty crappy) and hating some (like Mudclaw). idk, they try to make it seem like in their books sometimes its either black or white with who's evil and who's good but that shouldn't be the case.

I'm glad Mudclaw is in StarClan though!

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Offline Spellmaster

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2015, 10:11:47 PM »
I don't feel very strongly about most of the antagonists, but I have to second Hawkheart. When I started Tallstar's Revenge pretty much all I could remember about him was that he was made out to be pretty awful in some other books (apparently he killed an enemy warrior and threatened apprentices), but when you see him from inside WindClan he's really not that bad? Gruff and kind of harsh, sure, but not a monster. some of his actions may be a little extreme, but I think they're understandable enough that you can't just denounce him as a bad person. (also I feel like there's a stereotype that most med cats are gentle and peaceful so it's always fun to see one who's decidedly not those things)

Scourge's backstory was more interesting to me than his role in the main series... I didn't really care about him as a villain in the first arc, since he kind of showed up out of nowhere, but I liked him when he was younger and you could see what drove him to become so cruel.

I also find Darkstripe one of the more interesting antagonists, if only because he's not the typical confident manipulative villain. obviously his morals are pretty screwed up, and I've never liked him much, but it is kind of nice to see an antagonist who's not the powerful ambitious ringleader but just kind of following a terribly misguided lead.

Offline hyperadam

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 09:45:16 AM »
I already mentioned Hawkfrost in the favourite characters thread, so I guess that kind of answers the question for me. I just really liked his attitude and personality, and although he was mostly a catalyst for a large internal conflict for Brableclaw, that conflict and their interactions were one of my favourite parts of the latter half of the second series.

I also really like Sol. Just the idea of a manipulative villain who uses tricks and charisma to make people follow him rather than dirtying his own paws was really interesting. I remember the way he was described was very attention grabbing, and I like how the illusion of his power just came crashing down as it became apparent that he was just some lazy plum pit who wanted to have people do things for him.

Hawkfrost was similarly manipulative, but whereas he was trying to just raise through the ranks in a somewhat more honest manner, Sol tried to craft some kind of god-like image around himself.

I also find Darkstripe one of the more interesting antagonists, if only because he's not the typical confident manipulative villain. obviously his morals are pretty screwed up, and I've never liked him much, but it is kind of nice to see an antagonist who's not the powerful ambitious ringleader but just kind of following a terribly misguided lead.
I really like Darkstripe as a character too, but it feels weird to consider him a villain. He just seems too... pathetic, and dependent on Tigerstar to be a threat on his own.

Honestly, when I think "What could they have done to make me actually like Ashfur?", Darkstripe immediately comes to mind. He's the exact same type of character, just better.

Offline Ariel

Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2015, 06:56:50 PM »
I don't feel very strongly about most of the antagonists, but I have to second Hawkheart. When I started Tallstar's Revenge pretty much all I could remember about him was that he was made out to be pretty awful in some other books (apparently he killed an enemy warrior and threatened apprentices), but when you see him from inside WindClan he's really not that bad? Gruff and kind of harsh, sure, but not a monster. some of his actions may be a little extreme, but I think they're understandable enough that you can't just denounce him as a bad person. (also I feel like there's a stereotype that most med cats are gentle and peaceful so it's always fun to see one who's decidedly not those things)
Ah, I forgot about Hawkheart. He's actually one of the characters that I really, really like. I wouldn't consider him a villain although I know a lot of people do because of his past actions. But yeah, I agree with you. Even when you get in WindClan perspective, he's still really rough around the edges, but you can tell he pays attention to his clanmates and their well-being. I like characters like that.

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Re: Favourite Villain
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2015, 07:08:14 PM »
I don't feel very strongly about most of the antagonists, but I have to second Hawkheart. When I started Tallstar's Revenge pretty much all I could remember about him was that he was made out to be pretty awful in some other books (apparently he killed an enemy warrior and threatened apprentices), but when you see him from inside WindClan he's really not that bad? Gruff and kind of harsh, sure, but not a monster. some of his actions may be a little extreme, but I think they're understandable enough that you can't just denounce him as a bad person. (also I feel like there's a stereotype that most med cats are gentle and peaceful so it's always fun to see one who's decidedly not those things)
Ah, I forgot about Hawkheart. He's actually one of the characters that I really, really like. I wouldn't consider him a villain although I know a lot of people do because of his past actions. But yeah, I agree with you. Even when you get in WindClan perspective, he's still really rough around the edges, but you can tell he pays attention to his clanmates and their well-being. I like characters like that.
Hawkheart was a cat loyal to his duties. Rough around the edges, sure, but everyone shames him for killing Moonflower...when she's the one who went after his herb supply and basically could have killed many other cats in the process by destroying those herbs.

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