April 24, 2017, 06:10:49 AM

Author Topic: [spoilers] Dawn of the Clans: thoughts so far?  (Read 1995 times)

Offline Spellmaster

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Re: [spoilers] Dawn of the Clans: thoughts so far?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2015, 03:43:22 PM »
I was going to wait until I got farther in the series to comment on it, because I don't want to spoil myself reading discussions, but I just finished the third book and have a lot of thoughts so
disclaimer: I'm not caught up and I've read basically nothing in this thread :x

some general thoughts about the first half of the series:
(click to show/hide)

thoughts specific to The First Battle:
(click to show/hide)

Offline PinkheartII

Re: [spoilers] Dawn of the Clans: thoughts so far?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2015, 02:36:38 AM »
Quote
I also have not seen any of the aftermath of the battle, but I'm a little iffy on the end of it... it's odd to me that the spirit cats seem to blame everyone equally for the fighting? the moor cats had no intention of hurting anyone; they went to that meeting expecting to talk and the forest cats attacked them, and yet the spirit cats seem just as scornful of them for fighting back... do they really consider self-defense and murder equal crimes? would they prefer the moor cats to turn tail and run and let clear sky think he'd just "won" the rest of the forest? or abandon the three cats who were stranded in the clearing?
I'll admit they probably could have tried to hold back a little better, but like... clear sky's cats were obviously intending to fight to the death, not just hurt the moor cats and chase them away. in that situation I'd imagine it's pretty difficult to do less than the same and still secure your own survival. and I don't know what the final death count was, but the book mentioned several moor cats' deaths and almost no forest cats', so I think it's obvious who "started" it and I'm a little concerned that their wildly different motives were dismissed as unimportant...

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I am so glad I am not the only one bothered by this.  It seemed really patronizing and condescending to me the way the spirit cats scolded both sides equally for the violence. The moor cats were fighting for their lives, for God's sake! What else were they supposed to do? Abandon their clanmates? Let Clear Sky hunt them down like mice? It's like when a bully and a kid get into a fight and an adult yells at both of them even though the bully instigated it. I guess you could say the spirit cats had an excuse that they were all bitter that they died over nothing, but that's a big stretch to me. Warriors has never shown cats in the afterlife to be rash or unreasonable... well, except for OOTS, but that arc doesn't come around for another 57 years in the timeline.
It still bugs me, and it will always bug me, it just doesn't make sense. All the blame is on Clear Sky and his cronies, (not all of his Clanmates, just the ones who follow him without question) NOT the moor cats.

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Re: [spoilers] Dawn of the Clans: thoughts so far?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2016, 06:36:46 PM »
^ yeah, I can see why the cats that died in the battle would be upset, but like... they can't act like they're above that kind of behavior, they were part of it too :/ just because they've learned their lesson now doesn't mean they get to be all disdainful of the cats they sided with five minutes ago

I finished Path of Stars so I guess here's a reaction essay
as a whole I quite like this series, partly because it's really interesting to see the origins of the clan system, and partly because I feel like it was more character-driven than the other arcs? so (apart from the original sun trail prophecy) I'm not sure how I feel about the brief implications that this was ~destined~ to happen... I wouldn't say it cheapens it, but I think it's more interesting to have the clans come about because of the circumstances and decisions of the founders, not because they had to exist (not to mention that "fate" makes it really easy to avoid taking responsibility for your actions...). I was more pleased with the aspects of clan life that developed naturally, like instituting formal one-on-one training for protection, appointing a "deputy" in case something happens to the leader, etc.

I was also a little disappointed with the end because
(click to show/hide)

it was nice to see the early clans working together so much, and that theme wraps around well to the end (or current point, I guess) of the main series, where the clans have resolved again to be separate together. makes me wonder what drove them apart so badly in between...

I do understand the criticism of having so many female and so few male cats die, but I've never really gotten the "pointless deaths" argument... I feel like you could argue that practically any death is pointless, if you spin it right. when does it become unnecessary? at least some of them have to be necessary, because I would be very skeptical if this many cats got through multiple battles and an epidemic with no casualties... honestly I was more surprised that so few cats died from the sickness, after they made such a big deal out of it.

in terms of characterization, I think DotC may have had the advantage of a smaller cast, so fewer cats were left as flat background characters. tall shadow and river ripple were probably my faves by the end. some more specific (and spoilery) thoughts:
(click to show/hide)

I don't ship much in warriors in general, but I wasn't enthralled with any of the romances. a lot of them just happened way too fast for me. gray wing/turtle tail was cute though, I'm glad they eventually got it right. I ended up liking wind runner and gorse fur as a pair, too.
I'm torn on thunder/lightning tail because I don't like the incest-y feel to shipping cats who were raised like brothers, but I wasn't that fond of any of thunder's whirlwind romances with the she-cats either. and the way lightning tail acted jealous of star flower, and made his nest so close to thunder's in the new camp, I could see lightning tail having a crush on him...

Offline PinkheartII

Re: [spoilers] Dawn of the Clans: thoughts so far?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2016, 01:26:12 AM »
Dawn of the Clans is definitely the best Warriors arc since the original, no doubt, and it breaks my heart, because I really wanted OOTS to be so much more than it was. (TLH soured the entire thing for me) But there are a few key flaws with the entire arc that bother me, besides the spirit cats disdain that I brought up earlier.
Clear Sky- His character arc was SO CLOSE to being perfect! It was SO CLOSE! They did almost everything right, he started out good, he slowly began to make more and more questionable decisions, and they give him a POV so you can see the story from his eyes, allowing to at least understand why he's doing what he's doing. But they should have given him his POV sooner. It's indicated that Clear Sky became "evil" because of fear and paranoia, he was afraid of his group becoming weak and dying, or being attacked by rogues or the other groups. But...why would he think that? During the time he's slipping down the slope, we don't know about any threats his cats might be facing, because we don't know what's going on there.  It seems like every time the other groups tried to visit him for a friendly chat, he reacted like an army was knocking down his door, for no reason! They never gave him any purpose for feeling threatened, every time, they were like, "Hey, what's up Clear Sky? Anything new in the forest?" And he proceeded to either yell at them, or pummel their faces in. watermelon move, Clear Sky, watermelon move.
That could have easily been solved if he was given his POV back in TST, allowing you to see exactly how and why Clear Sky became an anti hero, you could see his increasing paranoia in his narration. But nope! Gray Wing got the first book to himself and shared half of the cookie with Thunder in the second, leaving Clear Sky grasping at crumbs in the third.
Thunder's Romances- There so baadddd..... Why are they so hap haphazardly written and rushed? Violet and Thunder get together a few weeks after her previous mates death! Even CLEAR SKY mourned Bright Stream a lot longer than that before moving on! And Star Flower... ugh, I didn't know a bad love story could translate to stinking up the story as a whole, but the Erin's managed it. I was so put off the way Star Flower was dropped right into the story and immediately started flirting with Thunder. I just couldn't help thinking to myself, "how was this introduction so bad?! She literally feels tacked on! There has to be some kind of twist to explain how horrendous this is."
And I was right. When Star Flower was revealed to be One Eye's daughter and spy, I was relieved, that was the perfect explanation for such a rushed, fan fiction quality love story, (Thunder still doesn't get off the hook for falling in love at the drop of a hat, though) and that should NEVER be the reader's reaction to a twist like that! They should be surprised, outraged, or at the very least, satisfaction from guessing it, but never relieved. That's a sign that you have done something wrong!