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Author Topic: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?  (Read 1194 times)

Offline Brokenstar

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Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« on: October 26, 2015, 11:45:44 PM »
I am here to discuss about... Jayfeather (and Yellowfang), who (both) obviously deserves the "Awesome Award".



My thoughts on Jayfeather: Jayfeather was probably the most interesting character in the Warrior Cats series. He had this grumpy attitude that made you want to kill the crap out of him but love him at the same time. He was blind and he struggled with this fact for quite some time. Jayfeather had a fighting spirit and it was probably contained quite a bit when he became Leafpool's apprentice. It greatly frustrated Jayfeather throughout his life and he most likely took his frustration out on everyone. It obviously didn't help he was one of the 3. All Jayfeather wanted was a normal life but of course, he could never have that.



My thoughts on Yellowfang: She had a very rough life. It really didn't help that StarClan gave her the ability to feel other cats' pains. Like Jayfeather, she had a fighting spirit and had a strong desire to be a warrior. But that wasn't her destiny. She was suppose to be the medicine cat. And destiny was using her as ShadowClan's punishment for banishing SkyClan. Of course, as an apprentice training as a warrior, she had to fall in love with Raggedpaw. Then as a medicine cat apprentice, she couldn't put him behind her, as a cat of an old life. No, she had to have kits with him and of course, only one survived, that one was given to the most spiteful queen ever and that kit grew up as the most terrifying warrior ever! Then of course she was kicked out of the clans by her OWN son! Then at the end of the first arc, she had to poison her son. Really! Yellowfang had a hard life! And of course we can all blame it on STARCLAN!!!! If she hadn't had her ability of feeling other cats' pains, she wouldn't have become a medicine cat. And if she hadn't become a medicine cat, her son would have been able to grow up with a loving mother. And if he had grown up with a loving mother, he wouldn't have become the terror, Brokenstar.



So does anybody have any thoughts/opinions about Jayfeather, Yellowfang, and HOW STUPID STARCLAN IS? Sorry... me and StarClan... we're not on friendly terms.
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Offline Ivypool

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 04:57:33 AM »
correction - Brokenstar was not killed at the end of the arc, but halfway. He died in Forest of Secrets.
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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 05:12:52 AM »
To me, both Jayfeather and Yellowfang are interesting characters, and I agree that they both have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Jayfeather did have a pretty tough life, and honestly, I feel like he lashed out at other over it way too much. He was grumpy in some cases to cats who were only trying to be nice to him (and he was also this way with cats that were condescending, which is much more justified)
I seem to remember him being bratty to Brightheart, which she did not deserve at all.
As the series went on he actually mellowed out a lot, so I'd say he was alright then. :P

Yellowfang in my opinion had it a lot worse off. She got into a bad situation and she knew it, and tried to do what was best for her son but then he turned out evil. I felt really really bad for Yellowfang when she gave Brokentail the deathberries. That was a really hard choice but she made it. Honestly though, I feel when she had him she should have resigned as medicine cat to try and raise him herself. I haven't read her super edition so I'm not sure if that would have been feasible or not.

As for Starclan...
They kinda of make a ton of weird decisions. I also feel they have less control over everything than we sometimes think they do (which I honestly chalk up to Starclan not being...super well written sometimes).

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Offline Windstream

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 12:14:33 PM »
Neutral on Jayfeather and Yellowfang

I loved Yellowfang until she just excused Ashfur as if he was a baby.

Jayfeather, I though he was a bit too grumpy and bratty at some points, but I dont hate him.

Now StarClan, I hate them. It's like when a cat dies they become completely OOC.
Silverstream not being spoiled is the only thing I like about it.
Also, the fact that they dont allow Clawface or Hawkfrost in but Ashfur is completely okay.
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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2015, 01:02:15 PM »
Neutral on Jayfeather and Yellowfang

I loved Yellowfang until she just excused Ashfur as if he was a baby.

Jayfeather, I though he was a bit too grumpy and bratty at some points, but I dont hate him.

Now StarClan, I hate them. It's like when a cat dies they become completely OOC.
Silverstream not being spoiled is the only thing I like about it.
Also, the fact that they dont allow Clawface or Hawkfrost in but Ashfur is completely okay.
Yeesh I totally forgot that Yellowfang did that, that's upsetting.

I also agree with you on characters feeling pretty OOC when going to Starclan. Yellowfang stands out quite a bit as an example of this, I'm sure there are other examples as well (Though my mind is blanking on some at the moment)

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Offline Brokenstar

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2015, 06:26:42 PM »
correction - Brokenstar was not killed at the end of the arc, but halfway. He died in Forest of Secrets.

This is what happens when you haven't read the first arc in a bit: All the events that take place get tossed around.


Yellowfang in my opinion had it a lot worse off. She got into a bad situation and she knew it, and tried to do what was best for her son but then he turned out evil. I felt really really bad for Yellowfang when she gave Brokentail the deathberries. That was a really hard choice but she made it. Honestly though, I feel when she had him she should have resigned as medicine cat to try and raise him herself. I haven't read her super edition so I'm not sure if that would have been feasible or not.

The cost for admitting she broke the Medicine Cat Code means Yellowfang would have been humiliated or even banished from ShadowClan. At this point Raggedstar was only the deputy. There are probably tons more reasons but I can't really recall them all.
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Offline SQ

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2015, 09:49:40 AM »
I think Yellowfang had found peace when she finally died, and I think that's a hard concept to grasp. She wasn't struggling, hiding, or fighting anymore - she just was. She is still grumpy, if I recall correctly (it's been about three years since I don't have my books) and she was really rude to Jayfeather a lot of the time. (also I do  not think Ashfur should have been in StarClan. The Erins copped out on that one imo.. he tried to kill them...)

I do not particularly like Jayfeather much. I think he matured quite a bit from the obnoxious cat he was when we first picked up his story, but... I think it was partially because he was blind and thought the world was pitying him because he couldn't see. :x


I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR STARCLAN. Ever since they started trying to include them more in the books, my wonder and respect went down. You just can't do that to your 'gods' so to speak... it humanizes them and makes them no normal than the regular living cats. They're just dead and they sparkle. And sometimes tell you something awful is going to happen.  I think they could have been written a lot better, and I'm upset that they were reduced to... well, mewling kittens.

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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2015, 11:10:45 AM »


Yellowfang in my opinion had it a lot worse off. She got into a bad situation and she knew it, and tried to do what was best for her son but then he turned out evil. I felt really really bad for Yellowfang when she gave Brokentail the deathberries. That was a really hard choice but she made it. Honestly though, I feel when she had him she should have resigned as medicine cat to try and raise him herself. I haven't read her super edition so I'm not sure if that would have been feasible or not.

The cost for admitting she broke the Medicine Cat Code means Yellowfang would have been humiliated or even banished from ShadowClan. At this point Raggedstar was only the deputy. There are probably tons more reasons but I can't really recall them all.
Do you think this would have happened only because she was in Shadowclan? I mean Leafpool ended up mostly ok and her kits were even worse because they were half clan (though you could argue Thunderclan is more lenient) :X Honestly the rule that medicine cats can't take mates is pretty silly imo.

 
I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR STARCLAN. Ever since they started trying to include them more in the books, my wonder and respect went down. You just can't do that to your 'gods' so to speak... it humanizes them and makes them no normal than the regular living cats. They're just dead and they sparkle. And sometimes tell you something awful is going to happen.  I think they could have been written a lot better, and I'm upset that they were reduced to... well, mewling kittens.
I personally never saw them as "gods" or anything similar but I do agree, Starclan just doesn't seem as...interesting or as powerful as when the books first began.

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Offline Brokenstar

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 07:45:48 PM »
@Darkforestwarrior
Quote
Do you think this would have happened only because she was in Shadowclan? I mean Leafpool ended up mostly ok and her kits were even worse because they were half clan (though you could argue Thunderclan is more lenient)

I think it really depends on the leader. Leafpool was Firestar's daughter.

Quote
:X Honestly the rule that medicine cats can't take mates is pretty silly imo.

Not really. There was a fairly reasonable reason for it. Some medicine cats may have been more biased towards their family and might treat them before other cats who have a far more need for the medicine cat's attention.



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Offline Darkforestwarrior

Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2015, 04:30:09 AM »
@Darkforestwarrior
Quote
Do you think this would have happened only because she was in Shadowclan? I mean Leafpool ended up mostly ok and her kits were even worse because they were half clan (though you could argue Thunderclan is more lenient)

I think it really depends on the leader. Leafpool was Firestar's daughter.

Quote
:X Honestly the rule that medicine cats can't take mates is pretty silly imo.

Not really. There was a fairly reasonable reason for it. Some medicine cats may have been more biased towards their family and might treat them before other cats who have a far more need for the medicine cat's attention.
Oh no I didn't mean that they should take mates and stay medicine cats, but I think they should have the right to change their mind and not be judged. If a medicine cat comes to a point in their life where they want to be a parent, then imo, they should be allowed to step down as med cat and be a parent. If they become a parent on accident well, deal with your mistakes, lying to your kits and your clan is hardly fair.

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Offline Brokenstar

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2015, 10:45:32 PM »
@Darkforestwarrior
Quote
Do you think this would have happened only because she was in Shadowclan? I mean Leafpool ended up mostly ok and her kits were even worse because they were half clan (though you could argue Thunderclan is more lenient)

I think it really depends on the leader. Leafpool was Firestar's daughter.

Quote
:X Honestly the rule that medicine cats can't take mates is pretty silly imo.

Not really. There was a fairly reasonable reason for it. Some medicine cats may have been more biased towards their family and might treat them before other cats who have a far more need for the medicine cat's attention.
Oh no I didn't mean that they should take mates and stay medicine cats, but I think they should have the right to change their mind and not be judged. If a medicine cat comes to a point in their life where they want to be a parent, then imo, they should be allowed to step down as med cat and be a parent. If they become a parent on accident well, deal with your mistakes, lying to your kits and your clan is hardly fair.

But life isn't particularly fair. The clans aren't particularly fair. The cat's IN the clans aren't particularly fair. Not all of them anyways. I don't mean to say the clan's have no right to have such a high expectations of the loyalties of their clanmates, but sometimes, their value of loyalty can get a bit extreme.
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Offline SQ

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2015, 08:08:24 AM »
@Darkforestwarrior
Quote
Do you think this would have happened only because she was in Shadowclan? I mean Leafpool ended up mostly ok and her kits were even worse because they were half clan (though you could argue Thunderclan is more lenient)

I think it really depends on the leader. Leafpool was Firestar's daughter.

Quote
:X Honestly the rule that medicine cats can't take mates is pretty silly imo.

Not really. There was a fairly reasonable reason for it. Some medicine cats may have been more biased towards their family and might treat them before other cats who have a far more need for the medicine cat's attention.
Oh no I didn't mean that they should take mates and stay medicine cats, but I think they should have the right to change their mind and not be judged. If a medicine cat comes to a point in their life where they want to be a parent, then imo, they should be allowed to step down as med cat and be a parent. If they become a parent on accident well, deal with your mistakes, lying to your kits and your clan is hardly fair.


I agree with this, I think that they should have been given that option? People (cats) fall in love, or have children/kits.... I think that's a good idea, especially if they have trained an apprentice already?? :/


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Offline Lightning

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2015, 04:50:41 AM »
My issue with StarClan is that they can never stay consistent. It doesn't matter what arc, what super edition, what book... nothing is the same. Especially with a lot of the elder, wiser cats (Yellowfang, Bluestar, Whitestorm, Lionheart, ect) in StarClan. While these cats were alive, we didn't see anywhere near as much of these popups from the Dead Starry Cats.

The Prophecies Begin --> mysterious, vague, doesn't say much, prophecies actually require some thought to a point
 
The New Prophecy --> appears more and more frequently (I presume because of Leafpaw/Leafpool), still a bit vague, but nowhere near as lesser-known as the original arc, at least one prophecy is obviously misunderstood due to Cinderpelt... and I'm not even sure if she really consulted Leafpaw or not

Power of Three --> way too frequent, constant viewpoints, StarClan cats butting in every couple chapters

Omen of the Stars --> Even more frequent than Power of Three, viewpoints are still very much there a lot to the point some of these are getting full chapters to themselves

Dawn of the Clans --> StarClan here was a lot more vague, and while they appeared much, they seemed to have shifted back to the StarClan we knew from the first arc

The prophecies from Power of Three and Omen of the Stars were literally spelled out, and made obvious as hell to the reader, especially the ones from climax of the fourth arc. It was made glaringly obvious that Firestar would play a huge part in Omen of the Stars, and that kind of annoyed... especially because it basically tossed the Three back onto the sidelines, while Firestar did all the work, battling with Tigerstar. Dovewing used her powers...maybe a small handful of times for something useful, and the rest was just nonsense. Hell, Firestar being the fourth was utter nonsense too- Ivypool did much more than he did, and she just got cast aside in favor of her sister.

A horrible thing with StarClan and most of the writing.. is that they treat the cats like they're days-old kittens- so many of these prophecies could be much more mysterious and vague if they'd stop making it obvious which cats they want involved.

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Offline Spellmaster

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Re: Jayfeather & Yellowfang & StarClan - Your Opinions?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2015, 11:53:02 PM »
Jayfeather is one of the most interesting characters to me because I hated Jaypaw, but actually came to like Jayfeather a lot? he was just such a whiny brat as an apprentice, and any sympathy I had for him was destroyed by how much of a jerk he was to everyone else, especially Brightheart. but I think he matured pretty well, and I've always been partial to those characters that obviously care about their friends but have trouble admitting it. no strong feelings about Yellowfang though... tbh I don't remember much of her from the main books at all

I'm pretty neutral on StarClan too, mostly just because I feel like a lot of their prominent cats make strange or stupid decisions :x the idea of them not being all magical and divine doesn't bother me -- I think they're just dead cats in the afterlife, really, and the living cats have ascribed them too much power and worship them for the wrong reasons -- but I can see why that frustrates readers, because they were presented as being something they're ultimately not. which would be okay if the point was to later reveal that starclan isn't as powerful as the clans think, but I think the writing has been too inconsistent about their powers for that to have been the intent

on the medicine cat front, I've always rationalized the No Mates rule as less of a practical thing (because even without a mate most cats will probably have biases, I'm sure they naturally want to prioritize their friends and family) and more of a spiritual thing? like nuns or monks who are expected to keep themselves "pure" by rejecting those kinds of earthly ties. so on one hand I think it would make sense to allow them to step down in the right circumstances, it would just mean they can't go back. in that sense it could be just like leaders wanting to quit or warriors wanting to leave the clan -- but I think it might be just as unpopular a choice even if it were possible, because once you've sworn your life to starclan/your clan/etc., backing out may come off as sort of a betrayal of values in any of those situations (and maybe especially for med cats because it's ~sacred~)... the clans seem kind of averse to any lifestyle changes like that so I can see why they'd resist the idea

I mean personally I wouldn't judge a cat for changing their mind, especially since so many medicine cats start when they're so young, but this society doesn't seem to have a lot of mobility in general :P so I imagine it'd be tough for them to completely get rid of the stigma that comes with leaving a high rank...  //mostly just thinking out loud