Warrior's Wish

Warriors => The Characters => Topic started by: Darkforestwarrior on September 19, 2016, 10:49:36 pm

Title: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 19, 2016, 10:49:36 pm
Gather round Warrior's Wish, it's time to hear the latest controversy within the warriors fandom!

Recently on Vicky's facebook page, a fan asked (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10154703033017454&id=29566467453&__mref=message_bubble) where some of the characters from the super editions ended up after they died. The question was answered by Su (Where did Su even come from? Can someone more informed than me fill me in? She's definitely relaying info from Vicky it seems but also has some power to make her own canon and I'm confused)

The question confirmed quite a few cats went to the Dark Forest, two of them having reasoning attached:

Quote
Brightflower [Yellowfang's mother], (Was filled with hate because she thought Yellowfang killed Mintkit and Marigoldkit. When Brokenstar revealed it was him she was not sane enought anymore to understand that her daughter was innocent. Also she was shocked again because her leader which she trusted so much was the murderer)
So she went to Dark Forest literally for not being mentally well? Not only does that send a terrible message regarding mental illness, but it doesn't make sense seeing as cats like Bluestar and Ashfur ended up in Starclan and both of them did arguably worse things.

Quote
Lilywhisker, (She got injured shortly after she became a warrior. Her hindleg was smashed and she had to go straight to the elders. She was furious of her fate to sit around for years unable to help. She is a bit like Briarlight with her broken back, but she wasn't able to settle her mind with her fate.)
A cat literally goes to the Dark Forest for being...mad that she was injured? Again, terrible terrible message that this sends in my opinion.


Anyhow, I think that sums it up, what are your opinions on this? Some people in the fandom are rejecting it as canon entirely (I don't blame them), some are only really irritated that there was no foreshadowing to any of this, some think we should wait and see if anything comes of all of it. Also, what are some of the other controversial things within canon, and what do you think of those?
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 20, 2016, 12:32:11 am
Su is apparently a really big fan of Warriors and knows almost everything, so Vicky let Su answer the questions she's usually bombarded with. Sadly that's all I know, sorry.
I don't consider Brightflower to be in the Dark Forest. Apparently cats that knew "I'm a murderer and I'm evil mwahahaha" went to the Dark Forest, but cats that thought "I'm being bad but it's for the good for catity" catmanity? Cathumanity? I dunno. went to StarClan like Mudclaw or Ashfur.
Haven't read Tallstar's Revenge though, so no comment.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 20, 2016, 12:49:07 am
I never really thought Ashfur was doing what was good for catkind (lol catmanity) it always felt to me like his intentions were selfish.

BUT if he was in a bad mental state it could be argued that he did think he was doing what was best for the clans by sharing the secret about the three. I can't argue anything positive for trying to murder three kits and his leader though.

Also yeah I don't consider either of those two cats to actually be in the DF. I reject this canon lol
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Squirrelypaws on September 20, 2016, 11:08:21 am
I haven't read the SE's these two are in, so I don't know much about them specifically... But didn't Vicky say, back when Long Shadows was released and we were all debating where Ashfur would go, that each cat had a sort of "trial" after they died and that a big factor was whether or not the cat was willing to let go of the hatred and/or see the error of their evil ways? I might be confusing a fan theory for something confirmed, though. XD
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 20, 2016, 11:51:56 am
This is totally the first time I've ever heard that theory actually! Who would be in charge of these trials I wonder, I feel they could be biased if random StarClanners were in charge  :tongue:
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Starlingspots on September 20, 2016, 04:13:02 pm
Lilywhisker never seemed to be bitter and never showed signs of anger in the book, so it seems out of character for her to be in the Dark Forest.

As for Brightflower, she does remind me a bit of Mapleshade, as they were both mad over the loss of their kits. Considering the fact that we've never seen anything from her point of view, she probably did wicked things like Mapleshade did with Appledusk, Frecklewish, and Ravenwing.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 20, 2016, 04:19:56 pm
I never really thought Ashfur was doing what was good for catkind (lol catmanity) it always felt to me like his intentions were selfish.

BUT if he was in a bad mental state it could be argued that he did think he was doing what was best for the clans by sharing the secret about the three. I can't argue anything positive for trying to murder three kits and his leader though.

Also yeah I don't consider either of those two cats to actually be in the DF. I reject this canon lol
To be more specific, cats who thought they were following the code by being bad.
And yeah, catmanity is dumb.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Lightning on September 20, 2016, 04:29:15 pm
Su is apparently a really big fan of Warriors and knows almost everything, so Vicky let Su answer the questions she's usually bombarded with. Sadly that's all I know, sorry.
I don't consider Brightflower to be in the Dark Forest. Apparently cats that knew "I'm a murderer and I'm evil mwahahaha" went to the Dark Forest, but cats that thought "I'm being bad but it's for the good for catity" catmanity? Cathumanity? I dunno. went to StarClan like Mudclaw or Ashfur.
Haven't read Tallstar's Revenge though, so no comment.
I wouldn't say she's just a big fan. She's really informed and her and Vicky are working together to try and nail down the series and get rid of so many inconsistent parts, and try and help fans get the answers they ask for. She also helps out with the editing for the novellas, and things like that. I'd say she's actually Vicky's assistant, not just a fan that gets to answer questions. She's a valid source of information and her and Vicky talk about pretty much everything before posting it.

Imo with Lilywhisker, I don't think we saw anywhere near enough of her to judge, but perhaps we will in another story?

EDIT: I also think Su was corrected on Brightflower, as it was pointed out she did know that Brokenstar killed her kits, as the event in question happened in Into the Wild.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: hyperadam on September 20, 2016, 06:46:47 pm
This seems kind of dumb... Like I understand that thinking your daughter is a murderer even after she's been proven innocent and staying bitter about something you can't control for your whole life aren't exactly healthy mindsets, but what exactly did they do?

Besides, if that's enough to send someone to the Dark Forest, why is Ashfur in StarClan? Yes, I'm going to keep harping on about this, it still bugs me He also stayed bitter all the way to his death, only it was over something a million times more petty, plus he had attempted murder on top of that.

Although I guess with Brightflower you could maybe argue that it wasn't just her blaming Yellowfang, but her being complicit in Brokenstar's actions? That would make sense.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Ivypool on September 20, 2016, 07:14:06 pm
allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 21, 2016, 12:17:17 am
Besides, if that's enough to send someone to the Dark Forest, why is Ashfur in StarClan? Yes, I'm going to keep harping on about this, it still bugs me He also stayed bitter all the way to his death, only it was over something a million times more petty, plus he had attempted murder on top of that.
Let's face it we're all going to harp about Ashfur going to StarClan for the rest of fandom time haha


Although I guess with Brightflower you could maybe argue that it wasn't just her blaming Yellowfang, but her being complicit in Brokenstar's actions? That would make sense.
I dunno, I mean she was obviously distraught over her kits dying,and even though she was complicit in sending Yellowfang away, Brokenstar didn't reveal what he had done until after Yellowfang was banished I believe.

allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Oh yeah, I remember reading the post about Dawncloud, that seemed pretty strange I think. In a way I can almost get that because stress can be detrimental to your health but dang...poor Dawncloud

I admit, I don't actually remember who Marshcloud or Fallowtail are though D:
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 21, 2016, 12:49:06 am
Besides, if that's enough to send someone to the Dark Forest, why is Ashfur in StarClan? Yes, I'm going to keep harping on about this, it still bugs me He also stayed bitter all the way to his death, only it was over something a million times more petty, plus he had attempted murder on top of that.
Let's face it we're all going to harp about Ashfur going to StarClan for the rest of fandom time haha


Although I guess with Brightflower you could maybe argue that it wasn't just her blaming Yellowfang, but her being complicit in Brokenstar's actions? That would make sense.
I dunno, I mean she was obviously distraught over her kits dying,and even though she was complicit in sending Yellowfang away, Brokenstar didn't reveal what he had done until after Yellowfang was banished I believe.

allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Oh yeah, I remember reading the post about Dawncloud, that seemed pretty strange I think. In a way I can almost get that because stress can be detrimental to your health but dang...poor Dawncloud

I admit, I don't actually remember who Marshcloud or Fallowtail are though D:
Marshcloud was in the alleigiances for Tallstar's Revenge. In the Crookedstar's Promise preview, he was seen carrying reeds with Timberfur. But in CP, Timberfur carries it with Cedarpelt.
Fallowtail was a warrior in CP and met with Reedfeather, WindClan deputy, often. Two moons later she has Reedfeather's kits; Willowkit and Graykit (Willowbreeze and Graypool) she also denies Reedfeather Willowkit and Graykit, Reedfeather says he will fight for them, Fallowtail gives it over. RiverClan attacks WindClan, they get the kits back, and Fallowtail becomes unimportant, only showing up at Willowpaw's warrior ceremony and worries about Willowbreeze's kitting as an elder.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: hyperadam on September 21, 2016, 09:25:18 am
I dunno, I mean she was obviously distraught over her kits dying,and even though she was complicit in sending Yellowfang away, Brokenstar didn't reveal what he had done until after Yellowfang was banished I believe.
Right, but it says that even after the truth had come out she still blamed Yellowfang, and trusted Brokenstar. That's kind of what I was getting at, that she refused to let that go and was still willing to defend the real murderer.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Lightning on September 21, 2016, 09:39:36 am
allegedly some other stuff confirmed from su include, of my interest;
-marshcloud is fallowtail'sbrother. So, he and Cedarpelt are twins now. I can't believe it. the original brambleclaw and hawkfrost y'all
-dawncloud is the mom of cats of the clans' blossomkit, and she aged REALLY bad after her kids died, talk about fanfic fuel
Kate confirmed that Marshcloud and Cedarpelt were brothers, not Su. (https://www.facebook.com/KateCaryAuthor/posts/10153391163326629?comment_id=10153395699456629&reply_comment_id=10153398489471629&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D)

I get that people aren't happy with this, but wow. Being rude to the authors and Su is actually kind of a watermelon move.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 21, 2016, 09:54:47 am
I'm not trying to be mean, and I can definitely appreciate their efforts to fill in the gaps, I think that's a good thing.

I merely disagree with these decisions and think they not only don't make sense but potentially are sending a bad message. (well, the Dark Forest cats that I mentioned at least, I don't have much opinion on the other stuff tbh!)
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Lightning on September 21, 2016, 10:43:03 am
I'm not trying to be mean, and I can definitely appreciate their efforts to fill in the gaps, I think that's a good thing.

I merely disagree with these decisions and think they not only don't make sense but potentially are sending a bad message. (well, the Dark Forest cats that I mentioned at least, I don't have much opinion on the other stuff tbh!)
Nah, my issue is with people who are on Vicky's Facebook just being cruel over this. Just because it's not what you wanted, doesn't mean it's okay to be a watermelon. There's probably a lot more to these residencies, and people are just going "well this isn't canon" and are, imo, kinda childish about it.

I'm still not convinced we're done hearing about these cats. Maybe they have more things planned? Vicky put them there for a reason....which is kind of a mandarinesque one, but still. Or at least in Lilywhisker's case. I do agree with Adam about the Brightflower thing, though.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 21, 2016, 10:52:39 am
I still don't understand the Brightflower thing though? What I understood from the train of events was:

Kits die > Brightflower blames Yellowfang > Yellowfang is banished > The events at the end of ITW > Brokenstar is revealed as having killed the kits > Brokenstar is driven out of the clan

So Brightflower was really only complacent because she honestly believed Yellowfang killed the kits. I don't think that is DF worthy, even if the shock afterwards was too great for her to accept the truth.

I guess we'll see what comes of them being there if anything though :P
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Lord Gato on September 27, 2016, 04:07:06 am
Wait, why does @Darkforestwarrior ask about the dark forest when she is in it as well? Up to no good I suppose. XD
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 27, 2016, 04:23:25 am
I heard that apparently Su said they replaced Brightflower into StarClan. I admit, I was one who denied it as canon, but's it's probably because of those who openly harassed Su for it. I think Jayce had to reprimand someone who called Su "a fan that has no idea what she's doing" on the wiki.
Ugh, just respect the authors, will you?
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 27, 2016, 06:31:51 am
I heard that apparently Su said they replaced Brightflower into StarClan. I admit, I was one who denied it as canon, but's it's probably because of those who openly harassed Su for it. I think Jayce had to reprimand someone who called Su "a fan that has no idea what she's doing" on the wiki.
Ugh, just respect the authors, will you?
Even though I didn't like their choice about Brightflower, it sucks that people straight up harassed them about this. I did say "lol that's not canon" but really only as a joke and I would never have said it straight to Su or Vicky, that would be just rude.

I guess I'm glad that Brightflower is listed as Starclan now, though I am still wondering about Lilywhisker. Again, I guess that's something where we'll have to wait and see?

Wait, why does @Darkforestwarrior ask about the dark forest when she is in it as well? Up to no good I suppose. XD
Always up to no good. :sunglasses:
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Ivypool on September 28, 2016, 04:41:56 pm
@Lightning  oh thank you i just assumed it was Su given I saw it listed with all of the other confirmations

i wonder how ppl are feeling about the missing kits thing su is doing
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Lightning on September 28, 2016, 05:46:18 pm
@Lightning  oh thank you i just assumed it was Su given I saw it listed with all of the other confirmations

i wonder how ppl are feeling about the missing kits thing su is doing
Nope, that was all Kate, and I'm kinda glad she confirmed that; makes sense and it's kinda interesting and also explains the mixup... I mean, it could be just terrible editing on HC's part, but I like the 'brothers' idea much better.

I like it, and since Vicky's also involved with this, maybe it's possible we're going to see some of those kits...
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 28, 2016, 05:51:45 pm
I found this on a Wiki Blog, from Su;
"Hello everyone!

I won't answer any questions, but I still want to say a word so everyone can calm down a bit and I think this Blog is the best place to do it so many people can see it:

Vicky sent these cats to the dark forest because she has plans with them. You have never seen their point of view and don't know what they thought and what they did, especially in the time gaps where we don't see these cats. Also, you still don't know how exactly one cat goes to the dark forest and all the ways to come there.

It were no "random decisions" or "mistakes by the editor" and there are plans, but I can't explain it any further by now, because then we had no reasons to write books anymore. But still, this is no promise for an upcomming book!

The mistake that Brightflower was already dead when Brokenstar revealed the truth was also fixed.

I hope everyone can calm down a little and that you are a little more patient. We always like to read you speculating what happened, but it is really not nessecary to rant and be angry at something like that.

I hope you still have a nice time with the world of warriors :)"

....right now it's hype
Real hype
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Lightning on September 28, 2016, 06:02:36 pm
I found this on a Wiki Blog, from Su;
"Hello everyone!

I won't answer any questions, but I still want to say a word so everyone can calm down a bit and I think this Blog is the best place to do it so many people can see it:

Vicky sent these cats to the dark forest because she has plans with them. You have never seen their point of view and don't know what they thought and what they did, especially in the time gaps where we don't see these cats. Also, you still don't know how exactly one cat goes to the dark forest and all the ways to come there.

It were no "random decisions" or "mistakes by the editor" and there are plans, but I can't explain it any further by now, because then we had no reasons to write books anymore. But still, this is no promise for an upcomming book!

The mistake that Brightflower was already dead when Brokenstar revealed the truth was also fixed.

I hope everyone can calm down a little and that you are a little more patient. We always like to read you speculating what happened, but it is really not nessecary to rant and be angry at something like that.

I hope you still have a nice time with the world of warriors :)"

....right now it's hype
Real hype
I've been saying this from the moment that we found out about those cats, but everyone's screaming "Su's an idiot!!" and some other... things. Instead of actually taking the time to realize that we have other novellas and books coming where these characters might be important.

@Neon Skylite I did in fact reprimand someone, and they turned around and claimed they were "speaking for the fans". It's like "no, you're not. you're just bitter and ungrateful that something didn't happen how you wanted it to."
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 28, 2016, 06:13:59 pm
I found this on a Wiki Blog, from Su;
"Hello everyone!

I won't answer any questions, but I still want to say a word so everyone can calm down a bit and I think this Blog is the best place to do it so many people can see it:

Vicky sent these cats to the dark forest because she has plans with them. You have never seen their point of view and don't know what they thought and what they did, especially in the time gaps where we don't see these cats. Also, you still don't know how exactly one cat goes to the dark forest and all the ways to come there.

It were no "random decisions" or "mistakes by the editor" and there are plans, but I can't explain it any further by now, because then we had no reasons to write books anymore. But still, this is no promise for an upcomming book!

The mistake that Brightflower was already dead when Brokenstar revealed the truth was also fixed.

I hope everyone can calm down a little and that you are a little more patient. We always like to read you speculating what happened, but it is really not nessecary to rant and be angry at something like that.

I hope you still have a nice time with the world of warriors :)"

....right now it's hype
Real hype
I've been saying this from the moment that we found out about those cats, but everyone's screaming "Su's an idiot!!" and some other... things. Instead of actually taking the time to realize that we have other novellas and books coming where these characters might be important.
Well, TBH I didn't expect them to appear that much. I thought they'd just be silently slinking about in the void of unimportantness AKA being a not-really crucial character to your arc/book but still in kitty hell so I didn't expect that.
You know what, when will they appear? *mad speculating follow*
But still, it's revolting how some people are treating Su. I saw on Brightflower's talk page because guilty pleasure I like watching troublesome users without doing much i sound really bad saying this someone who called Su "a fan that doesn't know what she's talking about" and you had to reprimand him. And then he replied back "canon has to make sense or else it shouldn't be canon"
In that case, because my friend had trouble understanding Warriors when I first explained it to her about it and literally every person on the surface of this earth HOW ABOUT WE DISREGARD WARRIORS' CANON?
I tried to get into Steven Universe when it first premiered in 2014 in Australia. I later lost track of the episodes; since now the story is so deep I probably won't try to get into it again, even if I wanted to It was a bit hard for me to make sense during the first ten minutes. So should we disregard SU as canon?
I hate to repeat what I've said, but have some respect.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 29, 2016, 08:55:16 am
I hope these characters get important roles! As a dark forest cat I feel especially protective of them the more time goes on.
That's cool we got confirmation they will appear again.
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Ivypool on September 29, 2016, 07:32:28 pm
wait im confused; is brightflower still in the df or is she in starclan ???
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Darkforestwarrior on September 30, 2016, 12:31:10 am
Someone said that was corrected so she was in StarClan now, I thought... but I haven't seen that confirmed.... Maybe I misunderstood that? idk o_O
Title: Re: Cats in the Dark Forest
Post by: Neon Skylite on September 30, 2016, 01:27:01 am
wait im confused; is brightflower still in the df or is she in starclan ???
I'm not sure, I saw the StarClan thing when Jayce was scolding the user I mentioned. Probably in DF based off the blog post that I saw that I effortlessly copy-pasted
Right now I just think she's in DF. Until I see something else, she's in the DF to me.