Moth Flight's Vision [spoilers ahead]

[Darkforestwarrior]

Did they? I have no memory of that law but it's been a long time since reading that book (I do take your word for it)

I'm a bit skeptical that we can definitively say that Moth Flight is a direct ancestor of Jay and Lion. Is it for sure that they didn't descend from Dust Muzzle instead? (Knowing warriors this is probably not the case, I admit) I see the connection now, it still feels a bit of a stretch though.

Also again, I didn't mind Moth x Micah, they were a cute pair imo (though if it's true Moth was super young that itself is  uncomfortable)

[PinkheartII]

Okay, I had my meltdown, time to calm down and grow up a bit.
And, come on people, these are cats were talking about. The same species that can produce up to 420,000 kittens in 7 years. The same species that can birth and raise three litters in one year. Cats are breeding machines, through and through. They have to be, their mortality rate is pretty high. The taboo against really young individuals falling in love and reproducing simply doesn't exist for cats. As soon as their bodies are ready, they're good to go. They want to pass on their genes before something has a chance to kill them off. Just look at Micah; he wouldn't have his imprint in the next generation if he hadn't met Moth Flight, and look how much comfort that gave her after he died.
I don't really judge anyone who finds it creepy that Moth Flight took a mate so young, since projecting human traits onto felines is basically the Warrior's jam, but I still think the books are more interesting when a cat's wild and primal nature is still in the mix, like Clear Sky and Wind Runner's dispute, for example. Sure, it was incredibly stupid of them to let their fight go so far without any substantial evidence, but it does make sense. Cats are crazy territorial, and if something or someone is encroaching on their territory, they can really go haywire. My cat has been very insecure and extra cuddly lately ever since a stray cat started hanging out in our backyard.

[Darkforestwarrior]

Oh yeah for sure the average wild cat irl would have no qualms with this sort of thing. This just seems like one of the very few times when they are doing a normal wild cat thing. They were pretty much still apprentices when Moth got preggers but it was seen as no big deal. Then at the same time these cats are mating for life which is not a very normal wild cat thing. It's just one of those...weird...inconsistency thing. It's just odd because I feel these cats are often way more human like than cat like which makes it more awkward than it should be

[Wavestripe]

I know this hasn't been posted in for quite a while, but I'm honestly really surprised that no one has mentioned how Holly and Jagged Peak treated the kits and Moth Flight in general. Honestly outside of Windstar's treatment that part disgusted me the most. I've never really been a big fan of Jagged Peak in the first place (He takes after Clear Sky more than Gray Wing), but this just sealed the deal for me. And I loved Holly before this book and I was ESPECIALLY not expecting her to treat them like that. 

[Lightning]

I know this hasn't been posted in for quite a while, but I'm honestly really surprised that no one has mentioned how Holly and Jagged Peak treated the kits and Moth Flight in general. Honestly outside of Windstar's treatment that part disgusted me the most. I've never really been a big fan of Jagged Peak in the first place (He takes after Clear Sky more than Gray Wing), but this just sealed the deal for me. And I loved Holly before this book and I was ESPECIALLY not expecting her to treat them like that.

Jagged Peak's treatment of quite a few things was handled badly. He did the same thing to Thunderstar when he was yonger, and I honestly hate him; he gets to do the "I can say what I want because I'm older than you"... and honestly, it's downright disgusting. He's nothing like Gray Wing and just a terrible character. He was cute as a kit, and I get that Skystar did cast him out, but that doesn't give him any right to be a prick.

[Wavestripe]

I never really paid much attention to him since he treated everyone like garbage, I totally forgot how he treated Thunderstar like?? What's wrong with this kid. Idk how someone like him or Skystar can be related to Gray Wing since they're so completely different from both him and their mother.

Also I love MothxMicah a lot and found them extremely cute. Even if she was hella young for human standards that's pretty usual for actual wild cats (who are usually able to reproduce around 6 months).

[Ivypool]

Also I love MothxMicah a lot and found them extremely cute. Even if she was hella young for human standards that's pretty usual for actual wild cats (who are usually able to reproduce around 6 months).

MothXMicah only had what, 2 months of knowing each other? And even then, Vicky did say they were basically like furry humans; while yeah it's typical for wild cats, it still feels really wrong knowing she's the equivalent of a teenager, you know??

[Wavestripe]

I can't quote on my mobile unfortunately, but I've always viewed them more as cats biologically honestly? Like personality wise I see them as humans but neurological function and judgement I've seen them more as cats if that makes sense. That's why I didn't really see Crowpaw and Feathertail as weird and I didn't see Dovepaw and Tigerheart as odd either. Plus even though they only knew each other for 2 months that's almost the equivalent of 20 months if you do the 10 years to 100 years from wild cat to human years. Plus they were destined to be together and were made to be soulmates.

But that's only me personally but I completely understand why people feel it's rushed and uncomfortable.

[Spellmaster]

hello this is old but I just finished the book

I enjoyed it well enough, but I have to echo several of the complaints already mentioned... in particular I just can't stand the antagonistic characters. just when clear sky seemed like he might finally start to redeem himself, he went back to being as aggressively self-centered as always. I get that it's his land and all, but the "I'd rather let someone die than give up a little of my spare medicine" attitude is just astronomically mandariny - especially when he turns around and gets mad at the other clans for not saving his own kit ://
jagged peak and holly just get more and more disappointing too, tbh. it's so hypocritical for them to criticize moth flight's relationship and doubt her loyalty, when jagged peak took a former rogue as a mate and lived with like four different groups himself

I was also a little weirded out that moth flight actually had micah's kits... I didn't mind their relationship as a whole, but other cats were still calling her "hardly more than a kit" at that point which just feels too young (for humanized characters), and also she and micah had barely agreed to be mates (and they'd had basically no time alone since then, so like... how...)
and then the end... I could sort of see the thematic point of splitting the kits up, but it still seems like a strange decision?? like, yeah, giving the kits away removes the temptation for moth flight to prioritize them, but she'll still be anxious about whether they're okay, and now she can't even see them to confirm that they are... I feel like she could have just as easily given them to her own clanmates

the territories continue to confuse me with each new book. the way they described the journey to highstones (especially the first time) made it seem like suuuch a long trip, when it never felt that way before. I can't reconcile the way I imagined thunderclan's camp in the original series with the way it's described in DotC, and I don't understand where skyclan and thunderclan's territories divide...

on the other hand I always appreciate river ripple and tall shadow and pebble heart, and I've come to like gorse fur, dust muzzle, and sun shadow more too. and it was nice that we got to see more of riverclan and shadowclan, since they don't get featured in DotC-era stories as much